{"id":27195,"date":"2024-11-04T14:29:19","date_gmt":"2024-11-04T14:29:19","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/progyny.com\/?post_type=podcast&p=27195"},"modified":"2024-11-04T14:29:19","modified_gmt":"2024-11-04T14:29:19","slug":"episode-195","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/progyny.com\/education\/podcast\/episode-195\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 195: Surrogacy: Finding the Perfect Match \u2013 Insights for Intended Parents and Surrogates"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"template":"","categories":[283],"tags":[369],"class_list":["post-27195","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","hentry","category-surrogacy-adoption","tag-surrogacy"],"yoast_head":"\nEpisode 195: Surrogacy: Finding the Perfect Match \u2013 Insights for Intended Parents and Surrogates | Progyny<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" 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want every surrogate and intended parent to feel comfortable and confident in their decision.","episode_intro_guest":"Sammi Itatani","episode_intro_company":"Nodal","episode_banner_section_intro_text":"This is Infertility is a bi-weekly podcast where we fuse narrative storytelling with experience and science to give you a new perspective on what it\u2019s really like to go through a family building journey. Each episode dives into the emotional, physical, and financial burdens carried by those who experience infertility on their path to parenthood. Be it IVF, IUI, egg freezing, surrogacy, adoption, etc., the path is never the same and it can be long, painful, and lonely. It\u2019s our mission to give those struggling a platform to be heard, a community connection, and an opportunity to raise awareness of the 1 in 6 who, for many reasons, struggle with infertility.","episode_page_title":"Episode 195: Surrogacy: Finding the Perfect Match \u2013 Insights for Intended Parents and Surrogates","episode_embed_code":"<iframe title=\"Embed Player\" src=\"https:\/\/play.libsyn.com\/embed\/episode\/id\/33674952\/height\/128\/theme\/modern\/size\/standard\/thumbnail\/yes\/custom-color\/ffffff\/time-start\/00:00:00\/playlist-height\/200\/direction\/backward\/download\/yes\/stats-code\/Landing195\/font-color\/000000\" height=\"128\" width=\"100%\" scrolling=\"no\" allowfullscreen=\"\" webkitallowfullscreen=\"true\" mozallowfullscreen=\"true\" oallowfullscreen=\"true\" msallowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border: none;\"><\/iframe>","episode_details":"<span data-contrast=\"auto\">On today\u2019s episode, we\u2019re joined by Sammi Itatani and Carly Vollero from <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.nodal.com\/\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Nodal<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, a <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/progyny.com\/education\/what-is-surrogacy\/\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">surrogacy<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> matching platform devoted to fostering strong, authentic matches between surrogates and intended parents.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">They tell the stories of their own surrogacy journeys, with Sammi\u2019s experience as a two-time surrogate and Carly\u2019s journey as a parent through surrogacy. They bring personal and professional insights into what makes these partnerships successful. They also dive into the importance of compatibility, navigating legal and financial hurdles, and understanding the different relationship dynamics surrogates and intended parents may seek.\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Tune in to hear Sammi\u2019s and Carly\u2019s experiences and how to be thoughtful in the surrogacy journey to create happy, healthy babies.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Guests: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carly Vollero, General Counsel at Nodal and Sammi Itatani, Program and Community Manager at Nodal<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Host: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan Bulger, Progyny<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"none\">For more information, visit Progyny\u2019s Podcast page and <\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/www.progyny.com\/education\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Progyny\u2019s Education page<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\"> for more resources. Be sure to follow us on Instagram, @ThisisInfertilityPodcast and use the #ThisisInfertility. Have a question, comment, or want to share your story? Email us at <\/span><a href=\"mailto:thisisinfertility@progyny.com\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">thisisinfertility@progyny.com<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"none\">This episode is also a video! Watch it here:<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{"335559738":240,"335559739":240}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\nhttps:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=nQ5EpuS4GOo\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{"335559738":240,"335559739":240}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\"><b>Looking for The Right Surrogate\/Intended Parents\r\n<\/b><\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">09:49 \u2013 13:40<\/span>\r\n<div style=\"padding-left:40px;\">\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carly Vollero:<\/span><\/b> <span data-contrast=\"auto\">I think that there are intended parents that want the extended family member, and there are intended parents that prefer sort of the all-business, and there are surrogates, in both of those camps as well. And so, I think it's really important to try to dig deep to sort of figure out where you are on the continuum. And you know, if you lean one way or the other, try to match with somebody who also leans that same way.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Sammi Itatani:<\/span><\/b> <span data-contrast=\"auto\">I get asked this a lot from surrogate candidates that I speak with. And they'll ask questions like, do I get to talk to the intended parents outside of appointments? Or will I get updates on the baby? And you know, there's all sorts of variables to that, but I think, you know, thinking about somebody if you want that relationship, are they someone you'd want to be friends with or introduce to your family and your children? If a surrogate also feels that they want that hands off, you really need to find that match from the start and not assume you're going to change the relationship during the journey. So that's why, during introduction calls, we definitely go over all of that to make sure that people are going to mesh well.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">With an LGBTQ family, like the two couples that I carried for, you know, when they wanted to start their family, surrogacy was always top of mind. So, relationship wise, I think it made it a little simpler from the start, knowing we wanted to have kind of this big, you know, extended, chosen family during our match.<\/span>\r\n<\/div>\r\n<span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\"><b>When Getting the Green Light\r\n<\/b><\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">15:05 - 18:21<\/span>\r\n<div style=\"padding-left:40px;\">\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carly Vollero:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> It's good to kind of be at arm's length in those starting moments until something forms a little bit more organically. So, I think usually it's kind of more text messaging at the start.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">After the medical clearance, there's also sort of, you know, you can fall in love a little bit more at that point, but you still have to make it through legal.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Sammi Itatani:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> I think legal contracts, it sounds kind of like a big, scary word, and it is an intimidating process, especially when it's 50 to 70 pages of legal jargon that you know, most surrogates probably haven't had to read through before. During that time, you might not really talk to the intended parents, because you feel as if you should be only communicating with your attorneys. At the same time. I think it's okay too, to still be in touch during that time.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carly Vollero:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> Some people are, you know, texting five times a day, and some people are more in the once-a-week category. But certainly, everybody's communicating around every milestone and every doctor's appointment.<\/span>\r\n<\/div>\r\n<span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\"><b>Financial Factors\r\n<\/b><\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">19:52 \u2013 21:56<\/span>\r\n<div style=\"padding-left:40px;\">\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carly Vollero:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> Surrogacy is super expensive. There are four things that can make you swing closer to $100,000 versus closer to $200,000.<\/span>\r\n<ul>\r\n \t<li data-leveltext=\"\uf0b7\" data-font=\"Symbol\" data-listid=\"2\" data-list-defn-props=\"{"335552541":1,"335559685":720,"335559991":360,"469769226":"Symbol","469769242":[8226],"469777803":"left","469777804":"\uf0b7","469777815":"hybridMultilevel"}\" aria-setsize=\"-1\" data-aria-posinset=\"1\" data-aria-level=\"1\"><span data-contrast=\"auto\">The first thing is something that's out of everyone's control, which is, does it work the first time?<\/span><\/li>\r\n<\/ul>\r\n<ul>\r\n \t<li data-leveltext=\"\uf0b7\" data-font=\"Symbol\" data-listid=\"2\" data-list-defn-props=\"{"335552541":1,"335559685":720,"335559991":360,"469769226":"Symbol","469769242":[8226],"469777803":"left","469777804":"\uf0b7","469777815":"hybridMultilevel"}\" aria-setsize=\"-1\" data-aria-posinset=\"2\" data-aria-level=\"1\"><span data-contrast=\"auto\">And then the second piece is, how much do you pay your service providers? (Not including the surrogate's compensation). In an independent journey, maybe you spend $12,000. Then there's agencies that are charging $60,000+ dollars, right?<\/span><\/li>\r\n<\/ul>\r\n<ul>\r\n \t<li data-leveltext=\"\uf0b7\" data-font=\"Symbol\" data-listid=\"2\" data-list-defn-props=\"{"335552541":1,"335559685":720,"335559991":360,"469769226":"Symbol","469769242":[8226],"469777803":"left","469777804":"\uf0b7","469777815":"hybridMultilevel"}\" aria-setsize=\"-1\" data-aria-posinset=\"3\" data-aria-level=\"1\"><span data-contrast=\"auto\">The next most material thing, which is a big question mark, is the insurance piece. So, on the insurance, if you're lucky enough to have surrogacy friendly insurance, your insurance costs could be close to $5,000 right? Just purchasing life insurance and some optional riders. If you're, you know, looking at the Affordable Care Act, you know it could be $19,000 depending on the state. And if you're looking at the private plans, you could be talking about upwards of $30,000 depending on whether it's a singleton or a twin pregnancy.<\/span><\/li>\r\n<\/ul>\r\n<ul>\r\n \t<li data-leveltext=\"\uf0b7\" data-font=\"Symbol\" data-listid=\"2\" data-list-defn-props=\"{"335552541":1,"335559685":720,"335559991":360,"469769226":"Symbol","469769242":[8226],"469777803":"left","469777804":"\uf0b7","469777815":"hybridMultilevel"}\" aria-setsize=\"-1\" data-aria-posinset=\"4\" data-aria-level=\"1\"><span data-contrast=\"auto\">The last piece, which is the big question mark, is, how much do you pay the surrogate? So, I think most intended parents would say, I want to pay the surrogate a lot right and compensate the person who's doing the heavy lifting.<\/span><\/li>\r\n<\/ul>\r\n<\/div>\r\n<span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\"><b>Surrogacy with Nodal\r\n<\/b><\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">29:01 \u2013 32:07<\/span>\r\n<div style=\"padding-left:40px;\">\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan Bulger: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carly and Sammi both work for a company called Nodal. As I said, Carly is general counsel, and Sammi is the program and community manager. So, let's get to know a little bit more about Nodal.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Sammi Itatani:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> The two biggest things that I tell surrogates that really sets Nodal apart:<\/span>\r\n<ul>\r\n \t<li data-leveltext=\"\uf0b7\" data-font=\"Symbol\" data-listid=\"1\" data-list-defn-props=\"{"335552541":1,"335559685":1080,"335559991":360,"469769226":"Symbol","469769242":[8226],"469777803":"left","469777804":"\uf0b7","469777815":"hybridMultilevel"}\" aria-setsize=\"-1\" data-aria-posinset=\"1\" data-aria-level=\"1\"><span data-contrast=\"auto\">The first one is matching. We allow our surrogates to see multiple families, multiple sets or of intended parents, and we allow them to meet with multiple intended parents, if they would like as well, before ultimately making their decision on who they want to partner with.<\/span><\/li>\r\n<\/ul>\r\n<ul>\r\n \t<li data-leveltext=\"\uf0b7\" data-font=\"Symbol\" data-listid=\"1\" data-list-defn-props=\"{"335552541":1,"335559685":1080,"335559991":360,"469769226":"Symbol","469769242":[8226],"469777803":"left","469777804":"\uf0b7","469777815":"hybridMultilevel"}\" aria-setsize=\"-1\" data-aria-posinset=\"2\" data-aria-level=\"1\"><span data-contrast=\"auto\">The second piece is that Nodal does allow their surrogates to create their own personalized compensation plan. I know that that can seem a little different when normally the compensation is just laid out in front of you and presented as to what you will be paid, but we really feel that it's not a one size fits all plan, and sometimes that can be, you know, lower or higher in the middle, and that's okay. We want every surrogate to feel really comfortable with their decision and what they're going to be compensated for, you know, specific line items.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/li>\r\n<\/ul>\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carly Vollero:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> On the intended parent side with Nodal, I think it's a really special way to find a match, because the first part is, is that you know that the surrogate picked you, so they swiped right on you. It is just really cool to not have the match happen behind a curtain, to have the people who are involved in the match, in the driver's seats and deciding whose story makes the most sense for them. So, I'm very proud of what we're building at Nodal.<\/span>\r\n<\/div>","episode_host_image":22677,"episode_host_title":"Dan Bulger, Producer at Progyny","episode_host_bio":"Dan has been in the healthcare industry for the past ten plus years as a multimedia content producer. Better known as \u2018Video Dan\u2019 he has interviewed numerous doctors, patients and other experts in the world of fertility. He\u2019s also the producer for this podcast, This is Infertility and the producer behind the<a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/progyny\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-uw-rm-brl=\"exc\" aria-label=\"Progyny YouTube Channel - opens in new tab\" data-uw-rm-ext-link=\"na\">\u00a0Progyny YouTube Channel<\/a>\u00a0which features interviews with dozens of the nation\u2019s leading fertility specialists. On a personal note Dan\u2019s parents started fostering kids when he was four years old, and he considers himself a proud older brother to over 100 foster children.","episode_guest_1_image":27196,"episode_guest_1_title":"Carly Vollero, General Counsel at Nodal","episode_guest_1_bio":"<span data-contrast=\"none\">A graduate of Stanford Law School and former criminal prosecutor, Carly possesses both a professional and a personal connection to surrogacy in that she worked with a surrogate to have her firstborn child. She knows from her own experience just how hard it is to find trustworthy, unprejudiced advice and offers recommendations for managing every step of the way.<\/span>","episode_guest_2_image":27197,"episode_guest_2_title":"Sammi Itatani, Program and Community Manager at Nodal","episode_guest_2_bio":"<span class=\"TextRun SCXW212374990 BCX8\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"none\"><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW212374990 BCX8\">Sammi is Nodal\u2019s dedicated Community Manager, a mother to one, and a proud two-time surrogate, having carried identical twins and a singleton. 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