{"id":26700,"date":"2024-09-09T08:00:09","date_gmt":"2024-09-09T08:00:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/progyny.com\/?post_type=podcast&#038;p=26700"},"modified":"2024-09-07T20:10:26","modified_gmt":"2024-09-07T20:10:26","slug":"episode-191","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/progyny.com\/education\/podcast\/episode-191\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 191: Two Journeys, One Friendship: Egg Donation, Surrogacy, and Secondary Infertility"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"template":"","categories":[275,451,230],"tags":[431,329,225,467,369],"class_list":["post-26700","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","hentry","category-emotional-support-and-awareness","category-family-building","category-education","tag-egg-donation","tag-family-building","tag-infertility","tag-secondary-infertility","tag-surrogacy"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.9 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Episode 191: 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come in all shapes, sizes, and different ways to form them. My experience helps me dig into what employers can think and how they should think about family building benefits.","episode_intro_guest":"Mary Lamattina","episode_intro_company":"Benefits consultant","episode_banner_section_intro_text":"This is Infertility is a bi-weekly podcast where we fuse narrative storytelling with experience and science to give you a new perspective on what it\u2019s really like to go through a family building journey. Each episode dives into the emotional, physical, and financial burdens carried by those who experience infertility on their path to parenthood. Be it IVF, IUI, egg freezing, surrogacy, adoption, etc., the path is never the same and it can be long, painful, and lonely. It\u2019s our mission to give those struggling a platform to be heard, a community connection, and an opportunity to raise awareness of the 1 in 6 who, for many reasons, struggle with infertility.","episode_page_title":"Episode 191: Two Journeys, One Friendship: Egg Donation, Surrogacy, and Secondary Infertility","episode_embed_code":"<iframe style=\"border: none;\" title=\"Embed Player\" src=\"https:\/\/play.libsyn.com\/embed\/episode\/id\/32899792\/height\/128\/theme\/modern\/size\/standard\/thumbnail\/yes\/custom-color\/ffffff\/time-start\/00:00:00\/playlist-height\/200\/direction\/backward\/download\/yes\/stats-code\/landing_190\/font-color\/000000\" width=\"100%\" height=\"128\" scrolling=\"no\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe>","episode_details":"<span data-contrast=\"auto\">In this episode, we dive into a powerful story of two lifelong friends, Nicole Gomez Fisher and Mary Lamattina, who supported each other through some of the most challenging moments of their lives; navigating infertility.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">They both faced their own unique struggles, Mary with <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/progyny.com\/education\/secondary-infertility-101\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">secondary infertility<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, experiencing multiple miscarriages after her first child, and Nicole facing the heartbreak of failed attempts and what seemed like the never-ending emotional hurdles of <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/progyny.com\/education\/ivf-facts\/egg-donation-what-you-need-to-know\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">egg donation<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> and <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/progyny.com\/education\/what-is-surrogacy\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">surrogacy<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">With time, friendship, and medical intervention, both women found ways to grow their families and meaningful ways to incorporate their experiences into their careers.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Guests: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary Lamattina, benefits consultant and Nicole Gomez Fisher, award-winning writer, director, and producer of the film, <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/goodeggthemovie.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><i><span data-contrast=\"none\">Good Egg<\/span><\/i><\/a>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Host: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan Bulger, Progyny<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"none\">For more information, visit Progyny\u2019s Podcast page and <\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/www.progyny.com\/education\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Progyny\u2019s Education page<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\"> for more resources. Be sure to follow us on Instagram, @ThisisInfertilityPodcast and use the #ThisisInfertility. Have a question, comment, or want to share your story? Email us at <\/span><a href=\"mailto:thisisinfertility@progyny.com\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">thisisinfertility@progyny.com<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">This episode is also a video: <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=mQ0_BFz1Qxk\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=mQ0_BFz1Qxk<\/span><\/a>\r\n\r\n<span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\"><b>Mary\u2019s Secondary Infertility\r\n<\/b><\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">02:37 \u2013 03:36<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:279}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n<div style=\"padding-left: 40px;\"><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Mary Lamattina: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I wasn't gung-ho on having a baby the minute I got married. But then, like, one day you get the bug, and you get the bug, and you become obsessed, and you're like, that's it. I want it. And I'm a planner, and I'm like, okay, this is what\u2019s gonna happen. And none of that happened. It took me a lot longer to get pregnant with my first, then I didn't realize there was a thing called secondary infertility and ended up having several miscarriages. There's a moment where you look around, you're like, okay, everyone had their first, now they're having their second. And I can't even, I can't do that, like, what the heck? So, I went to fertility doctors. They figured out whatever the issue was, and eventually I was able to get pregnant multiple times.<\/span><\/div>\r\n<span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\"><b>Nicole\u2019s Many Hurdles\r\n<\/b><\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">04:26 \u2013 08:21<\/span>\r\n<div style=\"padding-left: 40px;\">\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nicole Gomez Fisher: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I was very much a free bird, got married later in life, and it just wasn't the number one priority at that point. But then when I got married, my husband was very much into having a family, and I was not against it by any means. It just never was a thought.<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I had ovarian cysts that were massive. They had to remove my right ovary, partial left and my tubes, which was very unexpected and shocking. And at the time, freezing eggs was sort of fairly new. I mean, I didn't grow up in the1800s, but it was certainly new. And they weren't 100% sure what would last and what would not last. So we tried, and then after five attempts, twice with mine, twice with another donor whose eggs were not any better than mine, we finally got a third egg donor, at which point we were told that because of my prior surgeries, I would not be able to carry full term, and so it was very risky for my life and the potential children. I was angry at God; I was angry at my friends. I was just angry at everybody, because I just couldn't understand why it was getting more difficult as we went on. I really, really wanted them to be genetically mine.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Surrogacy was not legal in New York, so we had to go out of state. So I was as disconnected from this process as ever, even though my surrogate, who I still love to this day, really tried to keep me in the world with the sonograms, keeping me updated on everything, and she had a very difficult pregnancy was didn't make it any easier, because then I felt this guilt as a woman that I put somebody else through that.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<\/div>\r\n<span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\"><b>Two Journeys, One Friendship\r\n<\/b><\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">09:35 \u2013 20:37<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:279}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n<div style=\"padding-left: 40px;\">\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Mary Lamattina: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">It was a bunch of our college girlfriends, our little group. We were together for a particular weekend, and I vividly remember standing in my kitchen on the island, and I purposely stood away from Nicole because I was pregnant with my third child and was really, really nervous to say it, you know, in front of Nicole, but I figured it was probably better to do it in a group than one on one. And I forget exactly how it came out, but I vividly remember Nicole's reaction. There were definitely some curse words in there.<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nicole Gomez Fisher:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> Now in 2024 you go on Instagram, and it's like, it's just loaded with people who have gone through what I went through, you know, years ago. And I read some other women saying, I can't go to baby showers, I can't do this, I can't do that. And it was the same kind of feeling with Mary situation, because you know you love someone so much, you know they want the best for you, and you don't want to be that petty, jealous, bitter person. But when you've tried over and over again, it doesn't help. And of course, I was happy for her, but then I went home and cried for about four hours.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan Bulger:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> Nicole and Mary are both bringing their infertility experiences with them to their work. Mary helps employers provide their employees with various benefits, and often benefits that can help cover fertility treatment. Nicole made a movie called <em>Good Egg<\/em>, and let me read the description for you, \u201cA high school drama teacher, after failed attempts of IVF to conceive a child, is forced to consider an unconventional egg donor scenario that plunges her into a dangerous and exhilarating adventure with her husband.\u201d<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nicole Gomez Fisher:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> The one thing that about having a friend like Mary is someone who can see beyond themselves and be empathetic to the level of just being there, just knowing that at any point I can pick up the phone, even if she was overseas. And, you know, and just have that connection.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Mary Lamattina: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nicole is, I hate to say, like \u201cframily,\u201d but she's my sister, you know, no matter what. And we've established those bonds with godparent responsibilities, and lots of other things, but it's just a bond that absolutely is strengthened when you go through something like this.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<\/div>","episode_host_image":22660,"episode_host_title":"Dan Bulger, Producer at Progyny","episode_host_bio":"Dan has been in the healthcare industry for the past ten plus years as a multimedia content producer. Better known as \u2018Video Dan\u2019 he has interviewed numerous doctors, patients and other experts in the world of fertility. He\u2019s also the producer for this podcast, This is Infertility and the producer behind the<a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/progyny\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-uw-rm-brl=\"exc\" aria-label=\"Progyny YouTube Channel - opens in new tab\" data-uw-rm-ext-link=\"na\">\u00a0Progyny YouTube Channel<\/a>\u00a0which features interviews with dozens of the nation\u2019s leading fertility specialists. On a personal note Dan\u2019s parents started fostering kids when he was four years old, and he considers himself a proud older brother to over 100 foster children.","episode_guest_1_image":26701,"episode_guest_1_title":"Mary Lamattina, SVP, Healthcare Industry at Aon\u00a0","episode_guest_1_bio":"<span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary is a Senior Vice President in Aon\u2019s Healthcare Practice based in New York. She supports U.S. Health Solutions for mid and large market healthcare clients.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary has guided clients for almost three decades on a multitude of strategic, financial and legislative issues. She has vast industry experience designing and implementing health and welfare strategies. Over her career, her clients spanned many industries, but Mary has deep experience consulting with health systems and academic medical centers. She has worked with their key stakeholders and understands the uniqueness of healthcare organizations. Her work covers strategic planning, program cost-sharing, financial projections and market reviews. Mary has done substantial work leveraging healthcare clients\u2019 domestic resources in areas such as population health and pharmacy.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mary holds a Certified Employee Benefit Specialist (CEBS) designation and a life, accident and health insurance license in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and Virginia.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary is also a member of the New York Metro Chapter of the International Foundation of Employee Benefit Specialists.<\/span>","episode_guest_2_image":26702,"episode_guest_2_title":"Nicole Gomez Fisher, writer, director and producer of film Good Egg","episode_guest_2_bio":"<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nicole Gomez Fisher is an award-winning writer, director, and producer of the feature film SLEEPING WITH THE FISHES, starring GOLDEN GLOBE Winner Gina Rodriguez, Steven Strait, Ana Ortiz and TONY Winner Priscilla Lopez. \u201cFishes\u201d aired on HBO from 2014-2016.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nicole was nominated for The St. Louis International Film Festival\u2019s New Filmmakers Emerging Director Award and received the Brooklyn Film Festival\u2019s award for Best New Director. She was also awarded Best Director at the Imagen Awards, founded by<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:279}\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">legendary television producer Norman Lear.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Her follow-up feature, GOOD EGG, a heist\/comedy, was recently acquired by Vertical Entertainment and released in both theaters and VOD. GOOD EGG stars Yara Martinez (BULL), Joel Johnstone (The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel), Andrea Londo (Narcos), Nick Creegan (Bat Woman), and Nick Cirillo (Outer Banks).<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nicole\u2019s directing projects also include: \u201cHotel 112\", a proof of concept, \"The Beauty of Disaster\u201d, a short film, \u201cWokeman \u2013 Women in the Workplace\u201d, a webisode, \u201cQueens\u201d a pilot presentation and \u201cGetting out of My Own Way,\u201d a music video for indie recording artist Jennifer Vazquez.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nicole\u2019s work has been featured in The New York Times and Time Out NY. She is also a proud member of the NYWIFT and the Film Fatales.<\/span>","episode_guest_3_image":"","episode_guest_3_title":"","episode_guest_3_bio":"","episode_guest_4_image":"","episode_guest_4_title":"","episode_guest_4_bio":"","episode_guest_5_image":"","episode_guest_5_title":"","episode_guest_5_bio":"","episode_music_section_links":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/progyny.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/26700","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/progyny.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/progyny.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/progyny.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=26700"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/progyny.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=26700"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/progyny.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=26700"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}