{"id":24452,"date":"2023-02-27T08:00:07","date_gmt":"2023-02-27T08:00:07","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/progyny.com\/?post_type=podcast&#038;p=24452"},"modified":"2024-04-23T11:05:34","modified_gmt":"2024-04-23T11:05:34","slug":"episode-152","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/progyny.com\/education\/podcast\/episode-152\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 152: The Infertility Crisis in Canada"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"template":"","categories":[229,245],"tags":[465,303,235,425],"class_list":["post-24452","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","hentry","category-ivf-facts","category-male-infertility","tag-canada","tag-fertility-coverage","tag-ivf","tag-male-infertility"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.9 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Episode 152: The Infertility Crisis in Canada | Progyny<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Join us as Carolynn shares her 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hope with Fertility Matters Canada is anyone who is struggling or needs access to fertility care gets the support they need.","episode_intro_guest":"Carolynn Dub\u00e9","episode_intro_company":"Fertility Matters Canada","episode_banner_section_intro_text":"This is Infertility is a bi-weekly podcast where we fuse narrative storytelling with experience and science to give you a new perspective on what it\u2019s really like to go through a family building journey. Each episode dives into the emotional, physical, and financial burdens carried by those who experience infertility on their path to parenthood. Be it IVF, IUI, egg freezing, surrogacy, adoption, etc., the path is never the same and it can be long, painful, and lonely. It\u2019s our mission to give those struggling a platform to be heard, a community connection, and an opportunity to raise awareness of the 1 in 6 who, for many reasons, struggle with infertility.","episode_page_title":"Episode 152: The Infertility Crisis in Canada","episode_embed_code":"<iframe style=\"border: none;\" title=\"Embed Player\" src=\"https:\/\/play.libsyn.com\/embed\/episode\/id\/25803414\/height\/128\/theme\/modern\/size\/standard\/thumbnail\/yes\/custom-color\/ffffff\/time-start\/00:00:00\/playlist-height\/200\/direction\/backward\/download\/yes\/stats-code\/landing152\" width=\"100%\" height=\"128\" scrolling=\"no\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe>","episode_details":"<span data-contrast=\"auto\">In today\u2019s episode our guest, Carolynn Dub\u00e9, shares her family building journey with a few universal themes and emotions that many of our guests and this community has shared \u2013 the frustration, disappointment, sadness, and moments of hope. Carolynn also opens the question of, <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.benefitscanada.com\/microsite\/benefits-canada\/question-of-the-week\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">is Canada doing enough to support those struggling with infertility?<\/span><\/a>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Join us as Carolynn shares her experience with <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/progyny.com\/education\/podcast\/episode-108\/\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">male factor infertility<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, multiple rounds of <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/progyny.com\/education\/ivf-facts\/what-is-ivf\/\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">IVF<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, the emotional and financial toll this journey took on her and her husband, and how she\u2019s on a mission to change access to family building care in Canada with <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/fertilitymatters.ca\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Fertility Matters Canada.<\/span><\/a>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Guest<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: Carolynn Dub\u00e9, Executive Director, Fertility Matters Canada<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Host: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan Bulger, Progyny<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"none\">For more information, visit Progyny\u2019s Podcast page and Progyny\u2019s Education page for more resources. Be sure to follow us on Instagram, @ThisisInfertilityPodcast and use the #ThisisInfertility. Have a question, comment, or want to share your story? Email us at <\/span><a href=\"mailto:thisisinfertility@progyny.com\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">thisisinfertility@progyny.com<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"none\">Here are some highlights from this episode:<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\"><b>Male Infertility Happens Too<\/b><\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">00:20 - 07:26<\/span>\r\n<div style=\"padding-left: 40px;\">\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan Bulger: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carolynn Dub\u00e9 is the Executive Director of Fertility Matters Canada, or FMC. Fertility Matters Canada is the national organization that empowers Canadians to help reach their reproductive health goals by providing support awareness, information, and education, while promoting equal access to fertility treatments. But if you aren't Canadian, there's no reason to skip this story. Carolynn has experienced infertility and fertility treatment.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carolynn Dub\u00e9: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I got married, bought house, all the things in the order that society says you should do it, we did not anticipate having challenges, we didn't have any reason to think that, you know, conceiving was going to be an issue for us. So, after several months of trying, unsuccessfully, I just felt something wasn't right. So, I encouraged my husband, he was in the military, to see a physician. I also knew that it was important to have both the male and the female in a relationship tested. He had the results of his analysis back and it showed that we in fact, had male infertility. And so, we knew that that was something we were going to have to look into.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan Bulger: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">So male infertility is considerably more common than many think. Infertility is not a woman's issue. It's not only brought about by the age of a woman's eggs. For most to experience male infertility, the issue can be solved with IVF.\u00a0 The biggest hurdle for many is the cost. IVF can be very expensive. We're not dealing with the U.S. healthcare system, we're dealing with the Canadian healthcare system. And from all I've ever heard, the Canadian healthcare system is free for people to access, everyone has coverage, and so access is considerably greater.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carolynn Dub\u00e9: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">So, for the majority of Canadian provinces, fertility care is not covered under our provincial health care plans.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<\/div>\r\n<span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\"><b>IVF \u2014 It\u2019s Not That Simple<\/b><\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">08:12 \u2013 15:57<\/span>\r\n<div style=\"padding-left: 40px;\">\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carolynn Dub\u00e9: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">When you're in your early 30s, and you know, you've got a mortgage and car payments, and you're just starting your careers, and then you get a sticker shock of, you know, this treatment is going to cost sort of between 10 and 15, or $20,000.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">And it really caused friction in our relationship, that's for sure. In fact, there were several times my husband sat down with me and said, if you would like to get a divorce, maybe that's the route to take because you signed up for this wanting children, that was what we had signed up for and I can't give that to you. And so maybe divorce is something we need to consider so that you can find a partner who can give you a child. And of course, I wasn't, that wasn't what I was interested in.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Our initial appointment was in September. I started my medications in October, and had an egg retrieval by the end of November, we transferred an embryo. And I thought for sure, two weeks after the transfer, I thought, yes, this worked, I'm pregnant, this is great. And off, we go on our merry way. And so, when we got our call, the day we did a blood test at the clinic they said, \u201cCarolynn Dub\u00e9, I'm really sorry, it didn't work.\u201d It's not just as simple as go have IVF, you'll get pregnant, you're going to have your baby. This is months and years, and transfers and fails and miscarriages later that, that patients no matter if they're doing this on their own, or if they're doing this with a partner, are going through this sort of grief, month after month after month.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan Bulger: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">A transfer failure doesn't necessarily mean the entire cycle is a failure. If the egg retrieval resulted in many eggs, and a few of those eggs fertilized, developed and were deemed viable embryos, well, then you can get ready for another transfer without having to do another egg retrieval.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carolynn Dub\u00e9: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Several months later, we just jumped right back on the horse and did a frozen embryo transfer. And in retrospect, I wish I had been actually guided down that path in the first place. I felt so much better as a patient going through a frozen embryo transfer. You know, I hadn't gone through an egg retrieval and my body felt better and got pregnant with my son who is now eight and a half. So you know, we did have a happy ending there.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan Bulger:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> Eventually they decided they were ready to transfer another embryo.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carolynn Dub\u00e9: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I did try to do the embryo transfers with the remaining embryos which failed again completely. But thankfully, we were living in a province at that point that had infertility coverage wasn't extensive, but it did help ease some of the burdens. And my husband's coverage covered 100% of the drugs, which was a significant piece of the puzzle. So, we went to our local volunteer clinic, we did another fresh IVF cycle, and retrieved and froze all of our embryos, this time, which was a smart move, I think on our part. And that's when I got pregnant with my twins.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<\/div>\r\n<span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\"><b>Coverage in Canada<\/b><\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">16:19 \u2013 21:03<\/span>\r\n<div style=\"padding-left: 40px;\">\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carolynn Dub\u00e9: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I was ready to go back to work when my son was just over a year old. This job in the fertility space became available, and I was fortunate enough to be able to take on this role. And so, what was different between my first and second time, kind of going through this was I was obviously much more well educated. I worked with fertility professionals from across Canada who were able to support me and provide advice and guidance, which was incredible.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">We provide information and education to all Canadians who need information for about their reproductive health and fertility journeys. We have provide online support groups, we connect with clinics. And we connect patients with resources to help them make informed decisions about their fertility options. We also advocate for better fertility, coverage or access to fertility care. So, we advocate at the provincial level for provinces to provide public funding.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan Bulger: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Now we talked about how similar the covered landscape unfortunately is in Canada and the U.S. and of course the treatment options available mainly IUI and IVF are the same as well. But there is a part of this that is very different in Canada than it is in the U.S.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carolynn Dub\u00e9: <\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">If we look at surrogacy and egg and sperm donation in Canada, that is quite different than what happens in the U.S. In Canada, it is a federal crime to pay a surrogate or an egg and sperm donor to so it's illegal to pay a surrogate to carry the baby for you. It is also illegal to pay someone for their sperm or OVA, it has to be altruistic. In Canada, we actually only have one sperm bank, and we import about 90% or 95% of our sperm from U.S. or international donor banks, where interestingly enough the donors have been paid for their samples or for their donation.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">My hope is that everyone who has is struggling or needs to access fertility care will be able to take a baby home at the end of the day. I know that that will not be the reality for everybody but connect with people, reach out to your resources, find that safe space and be kind to yourself.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<\/div>","episode_host_image":22673,"episode_host_title":"Dan Bulger, Producer at Progyny","episode_host_bio":"Dan has been in the healthcare industry for the past ten plus years as a multimedia content producer. Better known as \u2018Video Dan\u2019 he has interviewed numerous doctors, patients and other experts in the world of fertility. He\u2019s also the producer for this podcast, This is Infertility and the producer behind the<a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/progyny\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"> Progyny YouTube Channel<\/a> which features interviews with dozens of the nation's leading fertility specialists. On a personal note Dan\u2019s parents started fostering kids when he was four years old, and he considers himself a proud older brother to over 100 foster children.","episode_guest_1_image":24453,"episode_guest_1_title":"Carolynn Dub\u00e9, Executive Director of Fertility Matters Canada","episode_guest_1_bio":"<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carolynn joined Fertility Matters Canada as the Executive Director in February 2015. A vocal advocate for funding of publicly funded fertility treatments, she now has three children conceived through ART. Carolynn believes in equal access and support for all those who need to build their families using alternative methods. Carolynn is a founding leader of East Coast Miracles. She holds a BSc in Human Kinetics from St. Francis Xavier University and MSc in Exercise and Sport Science from the University of New Brunswick.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:259}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Carolynn is a true believer in the in the importance of education, support and continued advocacy for the highly effective medical treatment of assisted reproductive technology (ART). 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